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In an interview with mongabay.com, the Jouberts discuss their new film, the crisis facing lions, and how everyone can help save Africa's lions from extinction.
INTERVIEW WITH DERECK AND BEVERLY JOUBERT
Mongabay: Your film follows a mother lion, named Ma di Tau. How did you find this lioness?
Mongabay: What was it about Ma di Tau's story that attracted you?
Dereck and Beverly Joubert: Interesting…actually it was the fact that she had cubs and no one else did on the day really, but there was also something about her. Lions have individual characters and personalities and the more you know them the more you get to realize this and see it in their eyes, the way you or I might see some sparkle in someone’s eye or just like the face. There was a little of that. Oh, I suppose that when we found her she was a lone lioness and that is unusual and we often, in our films, use the unusual to investigate the norm.
Mongabay: The film had the best nocturnal lion scenes I have ever seen. How did you capture these moments?
What I did was use HD cameras set with a little gain so I could squeeze the most out of the least amount of light. I used a very soft tungsten light, much less than a car headlight, and then I was careful that any lights stayed fixed, so lions could run in and out of it at their will, not mine. In other words I gave them the power to be in the lights or, if it bothered them, to walk out of it, and didn’t chase around and follow them. What we see at night is probably different for everyone on Earth, but depending on the time of night it's dark sepia just picking up the glow of dawn or inky blue, so we graded for that time of the night.
Mongabay: You caught some intimate moments of mother and cub. How did you get the lions accustomed enough to you to get so close?
Dereck and Beverly Joubert: Oh, just by doing the time. We’ve known that lioness for years now, so she’s really comfortable around us. In fact sometimes she sleeps in the shade of the camera vehicle if the nearest tree shade is too far. We’re always aware not to take that relationship for granted…a 400 lb lion can change her mind about how much she accepts you in an instant! But obviously the cubs had to get to know us. We can only use two advantages or tactics there, one is to just move in and spend day and night with them, parked some way off and moving a little closer each day…and the others is that their mother is so casual about having us around that they pick up cues from her after a while and settle down as well. Our ideal is when they carry on as if we don’t exist.
Mongabay: Were you surprised to see lions hunting in the water?
Mongabay: Without giving anything away there is a lot of loss in the film. How do you think audiences will react to such an unflinching depiction of the harshness of the wild?
Dereck and Beverly Joubert: I think, and hope, that the integrity of the film shines through. Today we are spoon fed so much TV that to see it for real, on a scale that justifies the comment that this is about as real a version of lions and their intimate lives as you will ever see, is what I enjoy about the film. Ironically there is less blood and guts than we’ve shown in our TV documentaries simply because this is not a story about the predatory behavior of these big cats, but more an intimate story of one female's relationships and struggles to do what lions do, live. Hunting is just a part of that. But we really wanted to show it all in a way that completed cycles, didn’t cut away politely (or falsely), and had no commercial breaks or pop ups and interruptions, for the specific reason of taking people on a journey, not to Africa, not across the river to Duba Island but into the life of a lion, and you only do that, you only get allowed to experience that, without clutter, too much manufacturing of cutting, or clever filmmaking. You do that by leaning forward.
A strange thing happens to people actually; they spend the time with the film and even though narration is minimal, around half way, they are so simpatico with the main character that its like a portal opens and they accept her trials, her successes as victories and they have real tears for her failures. Against that background, a buffalo kill is just what has to happen.
Dereck and Beverly Joubert: The Okavango, and Botswana in general, is the best managed (and by that I mean best preserved by leaving along and just protecting it) wilderness in Africa in our opinion. Every time we fly over it we feel somehow privileged to even view it from above, let alone live in its intricate detail on the ground. Botswana’s wild places exist because of a great attitude by its people and its government, and the Okavango is the jewel in the crown of this region. Duba Plain, where all of this was filmed, has to be the finest and wildest focal point of the Okavango, so in many ways we chose the best of the best of the best.
THE END OF LIONS
Mongabay: We went from 450,000 lions 50 years ago to 20,000 lions today, over a 95% decline. How did this happen?
Dereck and Beverly Joubert: We happened.
The main issues are:
Mongabay: Given that lions are a hugely popular and charismatic big cat, why do you think the public is so unaware of the precipitous decline undergone by one of our favorite animals?
Mongabay: What role does legal hunting for trophies play in the decimation of lions?
Dereck and Beverly Joubert: It is much a larger impact than we all imagined. Today there are 20,000 lions, maybe at best 30,000, which implies around 4,000 male lions with manes that so attract the safari hunters. That is the resource. So, the US alone imports 550 a year. If you do the math at all, it’s clear that we cannot continue shooting male lions at this rate. The reported US figure is just the tip of the iceberg, of course. If those were the only male lions being killed I’d still be debate that it's too many, but they’re also being poisoned by poachers, cattle herders, caught in snares, and their habitat is being chopped up! This is jut not going to last.
I also frankly think that it is a sad state when what is clearly declared a 'sport' can be defended so vehemently as a right, while the lions' population suffers and the global community is being faced with a future not decades away, but years away without lions.
Mongabay: How does killing the pride's male impact the rest of the pride?
Mongabay: How does the loss of lions—as top predators—impact the overall African ecosystem?
Dereck and Beverly Joubert: We have to make one basic assumption…that everything in nature is there for a reason or that it at least plays an interactive role with the environment and other species. However beyond that, the top predators of the world are drivers of the environment around them. Take sharks out of the seas and you see the collapse of ocean and reef systems. If we take Africa’s top predator out, we start seeing a blooming of other medium sized prey, that takes it toll on medium and resident prey. We see stagnation of movement and, in some cases, the stopping of whole migrations when the reason to move (lions) is eliminated. A stable and stagnant savanna ecosystem is a dying one and we very shortly see collapse, as we have from Ghana to parts of Southern Africa. We’ve seen the opposite in Yellowstone with the reintroduction of wolves, and the revitalizing of the system.
Mongabay: Given how far lions have fallen in just half a century, how do we save them?
On the ground we need to secure land. We need to protect it. We need to stop the market and desire to kill lions. The truth is this isn’t that hard. It will cost money: $50 million (which is the cost of 5 minutes of the Iraq war right now) will secure the majority of the lions we have left today.
We need to double that recent number in 10 years or we will lose them.
Mongabay: What is the Big Cat Initiative (BCI)? How will this program work to help Africa's lions?
Dereck and Beverly Joubert: BCI is an emergency effort set up to tackle this issue right now. It aims to highlight, put action in place, and to stop the lions' slide in 5 years and to reverse the trend in 10.
We’ve got projects in 5 countries in Africa and we’re scouring resources for out of the box solutions. The one thing we do know for sure is that whatever we’ve been doing for 40 years has not been working. We are applying new solutions, new ideas, and new people to do this. No conservation today will work without the help of communities in Africa. These have been our first efforts.
Mongabay: What are a few things people can do to help protect Africa's 'king of the beasts'?
Others will be able to lobby to get lions on the Endangered Species protection list. Look at the numbers. Lions are not classified as Endangered. We need to lobby for change. Support bills like the wild dog and cat bill, support or weigh in with representatives who will take the message loud and clear to the highest levels that it is unacceptable to see these animals disappear.
CITES is a convention that controls the trade of animals internationally. Lions have no protected status there. Motions need to be made by governments. The US needs to support this.
Get involved. We need an army of supporters who understand that we have to do the right thing.
Lastly and I don’t want this to be a punt for the film but if you watch The Last Lions or go on www.causeanuproar.org you will be able to find out all about this and ways to be heard. Also go to www.ngsbigcats.org. At the end of the film we ask people to SMS the word LIONS to 5055 to donate $10. Everything we raise is being matched and all the profits from the film are being donated back to big cats.
Mau di Tau with cubs. © National Geographic Entertainment. Photo by: Beverly Joubert.
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